Buffy Ep. 7.7 Speculation
Nov. 12th, 2002 10:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shannon_aAfter seeing a good, speculation-prone episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer I usually can't help running through alt.tv.buffy-the-vampire-slayer and some of the Buffy communities here on LiveJournal.
Often the general Internet speculation seems dramatically off-base to me. I think a lot of people are too close to the characters to actually see the shapes of the plots being constructed. So, here are my own thoughts on tonight's epi:
Here's the top few questions that I see arising from tonight's episode:
1. Was that Spike who ripped out the pretty young thang's throat?
Of course. We've seen pretty clearly that Morphy has no physical presence, that he needs to use easily manipulated dupes like Andrew to carry out his works on this plane. The Spike we saw, on the other hand, had clear physical presence. If you're not convinced, just ask the dead pretty young thang. Morphy can't do that on his own (yet).
Note also that we very carefully were not shown any of Spike's motivation. We didn't hear him speak a word, nor did we really see any camera shots from his viewpoint. Does he have a good reason of his own for siring new vamps? Or, alternatively, is he still being manipulated by Morphy?
Good money is on the latter possibility, given that we've now been given evidence that Morphy isn't stuck down in that basement. We learned, you see, that Morphy as Warren had apparently been manipulating Andrew for a while ... at least prior to the start of this episode.
2. Was that Joyce who Dawn spoke to?
Almost definitely. Note that Dawn was the only one who actually had to go through trials to have her conversation with the dead. Huge, great, tremendous trials that she easily could have failed. Something really didn't want Dawn talking to Joyce. If you're trying to manipulate someone, setting them up in a situation where they might not get to talk to the manipulator unless they show great strength seems like a bad proposition.
A second argument in favor comes from the makeup department. Note the full Powers That Be regalia that appears on Joyce when the beastie is finally banished.
And a final argument comes from the writer's department. A story with two points and a counterpoint is much stronger than a story with three points alone. We saw dead people manipulating Willow and Andrew for evil purposes; from a writer's point of view, seeing another dead person offer Dawn truth and honesty is a good balance.
3. Who's the Biggest Bad?
The jury's out, but I currently have a somewhat illogical like for Glory. These lines particularly struck me: "Fact is the whole good versus evil balancing the scales thing, I'm over it. I'm done with the mortal coil." That's a familiar cadence. Further, the big bad saying that it's now over the good versus evil thing implies that it was involved in good versus evil before, and thus is someone we've seen before or at least know of. Finally, Dawn hearing that Buffy won't be there for her has strong resonances to the time when Glory was seeking the Key. Finally, if you buy my earlier argument about Joyce, and the Powers that Be really did send Joyce to warn Dawn, it's not because it's important to Dawn, but rather because it's important to the fabric of reality ... and that once more goes back the Key.
I'm not convinced on the Glory thing. I kinda like it, especially since we have a similarly mysterious and prophetic big bad over on Angel who seems to be going by the handle "Beast", which also was a Glory moniker. In any case, I'm even more certain that the rampant speculation that we were meeting "The First Evil" is wrong now.
We've now twice heard that this thing is beyond good and evil. It's become pretty obvious that it can take the form of dead people, be they genuinelly deceased (the Master, the Mayor, Adam, Glory, Warren, Cassie), the undead (Drusilla), or the occasionally dead (Buffy). And the similarities between the Buffy Big Bad and the one over on Angel seem too good to be chance.
Like I said, the jury's out, but I'm becoming more interested by the moment about how they're going to vote.
4. What was the eeriest line of the episode?
It was full-up of eerie lines, but I'll go with Buffy's I'm beneath them. In a season full of "From Beneath You It Devours", that sure adds a powerful bit of ammunition to the stockpile of the "Buffy is the Big Bad" camp.
You might be curious to see what![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
kimberly_nlts said about this episode, if anything, as we watched it, discussed it, then each headed off to our own office.
No comments if you've been spoiled, pretty please. I'm totally unspoiled and prefer to remain that way. Subtle hints are usually good enough to spoil a whole plot for me, and I'd prefer not unless I do it under my own power, and can thus feel smug.
Often the general Internet speculation seems dramatically off-base to me. I think a lot of people are too close to the characters to actually see the shapes of the plots being constructed. So, here are my own thoughts on tonight's epi:
Here's the top few questions that I see arising from tonight's episode:
1. Was that Spike who ripped out the pretty young thang's throat?
Of course. We've seen pretty clearly that Morphy has no physical presence, that he needs to use easily manipulated dupes like Andrew to carry out his works on this plane. The Spike we saw, on the other hand, had clear physical presence. If you're not convinced, just ask the dead pretty young thang. Morphy can't do that on his own (yet).
Note also that we very carefully were not shown any of Spike's motivation. We didn't hear him speak a word, nor did we really see any camera shots from his viewpoint. Does he have a good reason of his own for siring new vamps? Or, alternatively, is he still being manipulated by Morphy?
Good money is on the latter possibility, given that we've now been given evidence that Morphy isn't stuck down in that basement. We learned, you see, that Morphy as Warren had apparently been manipulating Andrew for a while ... at least prior to the start of this episode.
2. Was that Joyce who Dawn spoke to?
Almost definitely. Note that Dawn was the only one who actually had to go through trials to have her conversation with the dead. Huge, great, tremendous trials that she easily could have failed. Something really didn't want Dawn talking to Joyce. If you're trying to manipulate someone, setting them up in a situation where they might not get to talk to the manipulator unless they show great strength seems like a bad proposition.
A second argument in favor comes from the makeup department. Note the full Powers That Be regalia that appears on Joyce when the beastie is finally banished.
And a final argument comes from the writer's department. A story with two points and a counterpoint is much stronger than a story with three points alone. We saw dead people manipulating Willow and Andrew for evil purposes; from a writer's point of view, seeing another dead person offer Dawn truth and honesty is a good balance.
3. Who's the Biggest Bad?
The jury's out, but I currently have a somewhat illogical like for Glory. These lines particularly struck me: "Fact is the whole good versus evil balancing the scales thing, I'm over it. I'm done with the mortal coil." That's a familiar cadence. Further, the big bad saying that it's now over the good versus evil thing implies that it was involved in good versus evil before, and thus is someone we've seen before or at least know of. Finally, Dawn hearing that Buffy won't be there for her has strong resonances to the time when Glory was seeking the Key. Finally, if you buy my earlier argument about Joyce, and the Powers that Be really did send Joyce to warn Dawn, it's not because it's important to Dawn, but rather because it's important to the fabric of reality ... and that once more goes back the Key.
I'm not convinced on the Glory thing. I kinda like it, especially since we have a similarly mysterious and prophetic big bad over on Angel who seems to be going by the handle "Beast", which also was a Glory moniker. In any case, I'm even more certain that the rampant speculation that we were meeting "The First Evil" is wrong now.
We've now twice heard that this thing is beyond good and evil. It's become pretty obvious that it can take the form of dead people, be they genuinelly deceased (the Master, the Mayor, Adam, Glory, Warren, Cassie), the undead (Drusilla), or the occasionally dead (Buffy). And the similarities between the Buffy Big Bad and the one over on Angel seem too good to be chance.
Like I said, the jury's out, but I'm becoming more interested by the moment about how they're going to vote.
4. What was the eeriest line of the episode?
It was full-up of eerie lines, but I'll go with Buffy's I'm beneath them. In a season full of "From Beneath You It Devours", that sure adds a powerful bit of ammunition to the stockpile of the "Buffy is the Big Bad" camp.
You might be curious to see what
kimberly_nlts said about this episode, if anything, as we watched it, discussed it, then each headed off to our own office.No comments if you've been spoiled, pretty please. I'm totally unspoiled and prefer to remain that way. Subtle hints are usually good enough to spoil a whole plot for me, and I'd prefer not unless I do it under my own power, and can thus feel smug.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
not a spoiler
Date: 2002-11-13 05:23 am (UTC)Re: not a spoiler
Date: 2002-11-13 12:41 pm (UTC)The First Evil is exactly what I was trying to seek an alternative to, with my Glory theory. Mainly because I think it's somewhat bad storytelling to position a major story point on a singular episode, four years gone now, that's never been referred to since. Something as apocalyptic as this season's Big Bad seems to be should have been foreshadowed in previous seasons and shouldn't have been a minor villain from a single past episode.
Reading back through the synopsis, however, I can see there are quite a few points in favor of The First Evil:
My main argument against The First Evil following epi 1 was that the big bad said he was "beyond" good and evil, that he was just about power. But the dialogue in epi 7 made it more clear that the trascendence was a recent one.
So, I think I'll have to retire my Glory theory for Buffy7 and admit it looks like The First Evil afterall.
I'm still curious about the fact that the apocalyptic baddy in Angel seems to have stolen Glory's name and I still think a return of Glory, now transcended beyond the mortal coil, would have made a better finale for the show.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-13 11:29 pm (UTC)This actually made me more convinced that it *is* the First Evil. My theory is that the First Evil is somehow intertwined with the First Slayer, thus the balance.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-14 10:23 am (UTC)